Winlink through VARA-FM on Yaesu FT-818 - not connecting, no signal

[Oldie]

Really not getting any joy out of this.

Device Manager > COM3 and COM5 > Properties > Port Settings > Bits per Second > set back to default 9600. Had previously tried 38400 to suit CAT rate, as posted a couple of messages ago, but that didn’t help any. Not sure what the difference is between “CAT rate”, “baud”, and “bits per second.”

From the Troubleshooting Page at:

Troubleshooting Digital Modes

1. Check Cables.–All cables being used for test are by Digirig.

2. Check Connectors.–On Digirig cable: green to green; black to black. On computer cable: ACC and DATA connectors can only be installed one way, and they are in and firm.

3. Check Permissions.–Start > Settings > Allow apps to access your microphone = ON

4. Adjust recording device level.–Cross reference to page on setting audio levels:

1. Audio from Radio to Computer
1.1 Enable line audio output.–No idea what this means or how to check it. No such setting on radio.

1.2 Set RF gain control to automatic.–Set to “AGCauto” on radio.

1.3. Set line out audio level.–Nothing by that name in FT-818 manual. Radio has an audio knob to adjust volume from speaker. 80% is awfully loud in FM mode; set to 25%.

1.4. Configure recording device.–Digirig set as default for testing purposes as advised.

1.5. Adjust recording device level (in digital mode app).–VARA-FM > Settings > Sound Card: Digirig selected as both input and output device with drive level at -15 dB (centre of slider). NOTE: changing this slider has no effect on VU meter.

2. Audio from Computer to Radio
2.1. Configure playback device.–Playback device renamed to “Digirig”.

2.2. Set playback level.–Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound > Digirig > Properties:
a) Playback Tab:
“Levels”: Speakers at 50%, Mic at 5%.
“Enhancements”: “Disable all enhancements” is checked.
“Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device” is ON
b) Recording Tab:
“Listen to this device” is ON
“AGC” is OFF
“Levels” Mic at 50%
“Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device” is ON

2.3. Enable line audio input
Menu Item #26 DIG MIC set to 65%.
Menu Item #39 PKT MIC set to 75%
Note: Radio manual says “During ‘digital’ or ‘packet’ operation, it is not necessary to disconnect the microphone, as activation of the PTT line from the DATA connector automatically cuts off th audio input from the MIC jack”.
Question: this sort of implies that when it is in FM mode that it is looking for input from the handmic?

2.4. Enable automatic level control.–FT-818 manual makes no mention of a setting for this. There is an ALC meter, but no setting for it.

2.5. Adjust level in the app.–Is this the same action as in 1.5 above? VARA-FM > Settings > Sound Card: Digirig selected as both input and output device with drive level at -15 dB (centre of slider). NOTE: changing this slider has no effect on VU meter.

5. Adjust radio’s audio output.–Master volume knob at 25% which is plenty lound enough on FM mode.

6. Check audio device selection – verify that the audio device selected in digital modes app is one that belongs to Digirig.–YES.

7. Disable squelch.–Squelch knob set to OFF.

8. Try different audio channels – in settings of the digital modes applications you can select between the output through right, left and both channels.–Nothing to that effect in VARA-FM.

9. Give permission for apps to access microphone.–Done in step 3.

10. Patch through audio – in Control Panel on Windows check Listen to this device box on Digirig’s recording device.–DONE.

RESULTS.–Tried both PING test and AUTOTUNE test, all three modes (FM, PKT, DIG): Radio does NOT go into transmit mode at all. Nothing heard either through radio’s speaker or through computer speaker.

[Oldie]

Switched back to computer speakers as output device (rather than Digirig) and in DIG mode only I hear “wahwahwah” when doing PING test and varying volumes of “wahwahwah” when doing AutoTune test, but still the same “no signal” error comes up.

[Jeff_M]

Hi Oldie,
I recently set up Winlink, and Vara FM with Digirig, so let me share some thoughts.

Before all else, make sure audio from your radio is reaching VARA FM and the VU meter shows some level over zero, ideally when all level are set, the VU would be in the middle 3rd of the dial on a quiet band with no stations heard, but anywhere in the green should work (VU is the sound level-in to VARA FM)

For audio-in from your radio:
Windows (my assumption)>Sound>Recording shows “Digirig” (mine says Mic In) as the default.
Right click Digirig (Default Device)>Properties>Levels, and set to some initial value (mine is 37)
VARAFM>Settings>SoundCard> Device Input = Digirig

FT-818, I am not familiar with, but do whatever setup you need to for audio line-out to whatever port your Digirig audio cable is plugged into. (Ideally the FT-818 audio line out will be non-equalized, and not changed by volume or squelch controls) If the FT-818 allows level -out control, set it mid-range for now. If it does not allow level control out (a fixed level like my radio) it is still ok; you will just have to adjust the level via Windows device levels. With radio on, FM mode, empty band, VARA FM on, the VU meter should be showing some level. If not, work on it until it does before the rest of the set up.

One (remote) possibility: the attenuator (ATT) pad on the Digirig PC board has been cut, which will drop the sound level-in by 20dB. If you are getting a low but non zero VU level with radio audio line out and Windows Mic levels both really high, check the ATT pads (I had to use a magnifying glass)
(Input Attenuator: Digirig Mobile Rev 1.9 – digirig)

CAT Control:
Not knowing the FT-818, I can’t comment, but from the thread with Constrained, it seems like your radio is keying when you are expecting it, so I’ll assume you have it set.

TX audio out:
Windows >Sound>Playback shows Digirig (mine says Spkr Out). Make sure Digirig IS NOT the Default Device.
(System speakers or some computer device should be default Device. This is where computer sounds go and you don’t want them to be transmitter by your radio. I have been told some Windows versions decide on there own to reassign Default Device when devices are unplugged and re-plugged, so watch your system.)
Right click Digirig (Spkr Out)>Properties>Levels>Speakers and set to some initial value (mine is 37)
Right click Digirig (Spkr Out)>Properties>Enhancements and disable all enhancements
Try a Winlink session and listen to your HT for anything audio (warble, hash, digital noise) that is obviously coincident with your radio transmitting. If you get a dead FM carrier then TX audio is not set up correctly yet.

I like Constrained’s suggestion of plugging headphones (something) into the audio port of the Digirig while VARA FM is outputting audio to confirm it is there. This is different than using your computer audio to listen to your radio’s receive audio (I thought that is what you tried).

You can use the VARAFM>Settings>SoundCard> Tune button. It keys the radio via CAT and sends audio. Try the drive level midrange at this point.

Auto Tune:
Tune your radio to the nearby Winlink gateway frequency
VARAFM>Settings>SoundCard> and set your level high, maybe -6dB, then the Auto Tune button.
Here is a video I found helpful: Setting Up VARA FM on FT-65R - #5 by K0TX
Auto Tune will progressively reduce your drive level for you to the best level for that gateway.
Make note of where it ends up. Mine is -21dB.

About FM and other modes:
My radio only does FM, so your FT-818 in FM mode should work. It’s all about receive audio filtering; you don’t want any. Use FM (because that’s the mode used on 2m gateways), but read your radio manual about the different settings and set them up for the least receive audio filtering or audio shaping you can.

Lastly – Uncommon weirdness to watch for:
After successfully achieving an “Approved” VARA FM calibration and VARA FM gateway ping with my Digirig, I kept getting “Failure to connect” from a local Winlink Gateway which I had used many times and right up to the swap-in of my Digirig in place of my prior TNC. I then successfully connected with a different gateway confirming my new set up (JOY!). Looking at the Winlink gateway listing and exchanging messaged with the owner, it appears that his gateway does not have the latest VARA FM software version. Apparently the different versions of software made a difference with Digirig but not the KPC-3 Plus. Until the owner upgrades VARA FM (and maybe more), I won’t be able to retry that gateway.

I hope some of this helps. I am good in QRZ if you want specifics of my settings.
-Jeff AJ6LG

[Oldie]

Hi Jeff,

To answer your questions:

@Jeff_M

Before all else, make sure audio from your radio is reaching VARA FM and the VU meter shows some level over zero, ideally when all level are set, the VU would be in the middle 3rd of the dial…

VU with the FM mode static shows about the 2 o’clock position on the dial. Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound > Digirig > Recording > Properties > Levels > Mic = 10%.

@Jeff_M

For audio-in from your radio:
Windows (my assumption)>Sound>Recording shows “Digirig” (mine says Mic In) as the default.

Have now set it that way.

@Jeff_M

Right click Digirig (Default Device)>Properties>Levels, and set to some initial value (mine is 37)

Mine is at 10% as mentioned above. Tried setting it to 37 but then VU meter is into the red. I stil get VU needle at about the 2 o’clock position even with mic = 0%!

@Jeff_M

VARAFM>Settings>SoundCard> Device Input = Digirig

Yup, got that. See screenshot in opening post.

@Jeff_M

FT-818, I am not familiar with, but do whatever setup you need to for audio line-out to whatever port your Digirig audio cable is plugged into.

Cannot find anything by that name (“audio line out” or “in” for that matter) in the FT-818 manual. Note however that the radio manual says “During ‘digital’ or ‘packet’ operation, it is not necessary to disconnect the microphone, as activation of the PTT line from the DATA connector automatically cuts off th audio input from the MIC jack”. This sort of implies that when it is in FM mode that it is looking for input from the handmic, not the DATA cable?

@Jeff_M

With radio on, FM mode, empty band, VARA FM on, the VU meter should be showing some level. If not, work on it until it does before the rest of the set up.

It is indeed, showing the needle at about the 2 o’clock position with settings as described above.

@Jeff_M

One (remote) possibility: the attenuator (ATT) pad on the Digirig PC board has been cut, which will drop the sound level-in by 20dB. If you are getting a low but non zero VU level with radio audio line out and Windows Mic levels both really high, check the ATT pads (I had to use a magnifying glass)

I’m getting the VU meter registering audio with the background FM static. The needle disappears entirely when I ping, and I hear nothing on FM mode or PKT mode, but a very light, short, “wahwahwah” in DIG mode.

@Jeff_M

TX audio out:
Windows >Sound>Playback shows Digirig (mine says Spkr Out). Make sure Digirig IS NOT the Default Device.

Correct, it is NOT the Default Device for playback.

@Jeff_M

Right click Digirig (Spkr Out)>Properties>Levels>Speakers and set to some initial value (mine is 37)

I have it at 50%

@Jeff_M

Right click Digirig (Spkr Out)>Properties>Enhancements and disable all enhancements

All disabled.

@Jeff_M

Try a Winlink session and listen to your HT for anything audio (warble, hash, digital noise) that is obviously coincident with your radio transmitting. If you get a dead FM carrier then TX audio is not set up correctly yet.

I’m using a scanner, and get a burst of static that coincides with transmission when using DIG mode. Nothing at all with PKT or FM mode (radio does not even go into Transmit).

@Jeff_M

I like Constrained’s suggestion of plugging headphones (something) into the audio port of the Digirig while VARA FM is outputting audio to confirm it is there. This is different than using your computer audio to listen to your radio’s receive audio (I thought that is what you tried).

I have no headphones or earbuds. Radio also has a speaker, so I hear it through both the radio and the computer.

@Jeff_M

You can use the VARAFM>Settings>SoundCard> Tune button. It keys the radio via CAT and sends audio. Try the drive level midrange at this point.

Slider is set to midrange. With either AutoTune or with ping I get a “no signal” error (screenshot in opening post).

@Jeff_M

About FM and other modes:
My radio only does FM, so your FT-818 in FM mode should work. It’s all about receive audio filtering; you don’t want any. Use FM (because that’s the mode used on 2m gateways), but read your radio manual about the different settings and set them up for the least receive audio filtering or audio shaping you can.

The FT-818ND has options for CW and SSB filters, but these are chips that need to be added to the radio, not menu settings. There are no audio filter settings on the radio. It has a volume knob; that’s it.

@Jeff_M

Lastly – Uncommon weirdness to watch for:
After successfully achieving an “Approved” VARA FM calibration and VARA FM gateway ping with my Digirig, I kept getting “Failure to connect” … Looking at the Winlink gateway listing and exchanging messaged with the owner, it appears that his gateway does not have the latest VARA FM software version. Apparently the different versions of software made a difference with Digirig…

That might be a problem, but at this point with the settings discussed above I can’t get the radio to transmit for a Ping or an AutoTune in FM mode (only DIG). So I’m still blaming myself rather than the gateway!

[Jeff_M]

Responses below in situ. (Jeff)

[Oldie]

@Jeff_M

Responses below in situ. (Jeff)

Eh? Sorry, not understanding you.

[Jeff_M]

(Jeff) One “Is the plug in the wall socket?” question I forgot to ask.
Have you got the latest VARA FM version? (VARA FM>Settings>VARA Setup – Check the “Allow VARA to check for updates”)
(VARA Setup – I also set mine to “Wide” FM system, but I don’t think that is relevant to your issues)

Jeff_M:
Right click Digirig (Default Device)>Properties>Levels, and set to some initial value (mine is 37)
Mine is at 10% as mentioned above. Tried setting it to 37 but then VU meter is into the red. I stil get VU needle at about the 2 o’clock position even with mic = 0%!
(Jeff) Mic at zero and still the VU at 2 o’clock seems like you might want to try the Digirig ATT. I had to. - Jeff
Jeff_M:
FT-818, I am not familiar with, but do whatever setup you need to for audio line-out to whatever port your Digirig audio cable is plugged into.
Cannot find anything by that name (“audio line out” or “in” for that matter) in the FT-818 manual. Note however that the radio manual says “During ‘digital’ or ‘packet’ operation, it is not necessary to disconnect the microphone, as activation of the PTT line from the DATA connector automatically cuts off th audio input from the MIC jack”. This sort of implies that when it is in FM mode that it is looking for input from the handmic, not the DATA cable?
(Jeff) I looked at the FT-818 manual (page 6) and I interpret it as: the radio is not using the Mic for audio input when operating in packet mode, but instead using the audio from the Mini Din 6 DATA port on the back of the radio – which is what you want (page 15,4). Yaesu calls it a DATA port but it is not really. It has audio from the radio on receive, to the radio on transmit, as well as PTT. Your Digirig cable should be from this Mini Din 6 to the Digirig Audio-in connector.
Page 16 confirms my earlier supposition that the (receive) audio out level of at the DATA jack is fixed in DIG or PKT mode and unaffected by the volume knob.
Page 20 says the DATA input levels (transmit audio) can be adjusted by the 818 Menu #25[DIG MIC] in PSK mode. I suspect this will also apply to DIG mode. Just one more way to adjust Transmit audio level, but it sounds like your current setting are getting something out.
Jeff_M:
Try a Winlink session and listen to your HT for anything audio (warble, hash, digital noise) that is obviously coincident with your radio transmitting. If you get a dead FM carrier then TX audio is not set up correctly yet.
I’m using a scanner, and get a burst of static that coincides with transmission when using DIG mode. Nothing at all with PKT or FM mode (radio does not even go into Transmit).
(Jeff) OK, not having studied the 818 manual, I would stick with DIG mode. If you are getting the digital noise coincident with your transmit on the scanner, then I think your TX audio is getting out.
Is your Winlink set to connect to VE3SMF or VE3SMF-10? If to VE3SMF you will get no response. Use VE3SMF-10.
With the 818 volume up, and Winlink connecting to VE3SMF-10, can you hear any attempt by the gateway to respond to you TX?
Jeff_M:
You can use the VARAFM>Settings>SoundCard> Tune button. It keys the radio via CAT and sends audio. Try the drive level midrange at this point.
Slider is set to midrange. With either AutoTune or with ping I get a “no signal” error (screenshot in opening post).
(Jeff) Your VARA FM transmit screen shot looks as mine does when I get Failure to Connect.
On receive, VARA FM VU at 2 o’clock is the same as mine this morning.
If you haven’t already, set your retries to 10 in VARA FM set up
Did you Ping and Auto Tune to VE3SMF or VE3SMF-10? If to VE3SMF, you will get No Signal, use VE3SMF-10.
VARA FM transmits then listens, transmits then listens, etc. Each time it transmits you should hear your attempt on the scanner. Between each transmit you should hear the gateway trying to respond. If you do hear a respond but it’s not connecting, then your gateway may suffer from the software version problem I encountered. If you hear nothing between transmit retries and you are trying VE3SMF-10 then I would consider:

1. Find anything you can plug in the Digirig audio socket to confirm it is sending audio to the radio.
2. Confirm the gateway is functional somehow:
   a. Do you (or a ham in your area) have a prior functional TNC, Radio, Computer combination that does work with the gateway?
   b. Try another gateway
   c. Contact the gateway owner
   That’s all I can think of.
   -Jeff AJ6LG
   Jeff_M:
   Lastly – Uncommon weirdness to watch for:
   After successfully achieving an “Approved” VARA FM calibration and VARA FM gateway ping with my Digirig, I kept getting “Failure to connect” … Looking at the Winlink gateway listing and exchanging messaged with the owner, it appears that his gateway does not have the latest VARA FM software version. Apparently the different versions of software made a difference with Digirig…
   That might be a problem, but at this point with the settings discussed above I can’t get the radio to transmit for a Ping or an AutoTune in FM mode (only DIG). So I’m still blaming myself rather than the gateway!

[Jeff_M]

I thought you had your PTT worked out, but maybe not. For what it’s worth, here are my CAT settings for using my Yaesu that has a Mini Din 6 for PTT and audio, but no frequency control (set it manually):

VARA FM>Settings>PTT – COM (Not CAT, RA-Board, or VOX), Port = COM7(my Digirig), PTT Pin=RTS

[Oldie]

@"Jeff_M

Have you got the latest VARA FM version?

It’s V4.2.9 downloaded from https://rosmodem.wordpress.com/ about two weeks ago. Seems to be most recent.

@"Jeff_M

In VARA FM>Settings>VARA Setup – Check the “Allow VARA to check for updates”

Yup, got it.

@"Jeff_M

Mic at zero and still the VU at 2 o’clock seems like you might want to try the Digirig ATT. I had to.

This thread:

Digirig mobile input attenuator

The trace is hidden under the black coating.

implies that the ATT thing is “open-device surgery”! Sounds complicated. I might need to go there, but will leave it to last.

@"Jeff_M

… do whatever setup you need to for audio line-out to whatever port your Digirig audio cable is plugged into. … Your Digirig cable should be from this Mini Din 6 to the Digirig Audio-in connector.

Yes, it is connected that way.

@"Jeff_M

Page 16 confirms my earlier supposition that the (receive) audio out level of at the DATA jack is fixed in DIG or PKT mode and unaffected by the volume knob. Page 20 says the DATA input levels (transmit audio) can be adjusted by the 818 Menu #25 [DIG MIC] in PSK mode. I suspect this will also apply to DIG mode. Just one more way to adjust Transmit audio level, but it sounds like your current setting are getting something out.

Maybe not. Trying for much of the afternoon yesterday and was NOT hearing anything at all on the scanner… AARRGGHH!

Actually, I’m still not entirely sure what mode I should be using for this exercise. The stuff from the manual seems to imply that FM mode will not work for digital as when in FM the radio is expecting input via the handmic and is not paying any attention to the DATA jack. If the gateways are expecting an FM-modulated signal, and the FT-818 will not transmit audio recieved via the DATA jack when in FM-mode, then perhaps one simply cannot “do” VARA-FM with an FT-818? That seems to be a possibility.

@"Jeff_M

Is your Winlink set to connect to VE3SMF or VE3SMF-10? If to VE3SMF you will get no response. Use VE3SMF-10.

Yes, am using VE3SMF-10.

Also tried with a more distant station, K2SLC, located 92 km away. It is the next closest to VE3SMF, which is only 9 km away. Still no joy with that either, in FM, PKT, or DIG modes; all still give the “no signal” error, as does VE3SMF-10.

@"Jeff_M

With the 818 volume up, and Winlink connecting to VE3SMF-10, can you hear any attempt by the gateway to respond to you TX? … VARA FM transmits then listens, transmits then listens, etc. Each time it transmits you should hear your attempt on the scanner. Between each transmit you should hear the gateway trying to respond. If you hear nothing between transmit retries and you are trying VE3SMF-10 then I would consider: Find anything you can plug in the Digirig audio socket to confirm it is sending audio to the radio.

Nope, couldn’t hear anything on the scanner, any mode, either Ping or AutoTune.

Found and tried an old one-eared headphone and plugged it into green audio socket of digirig, but didn’t hear anything.

So, let’s assume that there is no actual audio getting out.

There seem to be volume controls in Windows, in VARA, and on the radio itself. All of them are set for some non-zero number (Windows mic is minimal at 5% lest VARA be overdriven, but everything else is around 50% but I’ve played around with all the settings at this point with no change in “no signal” error).

Then what do I do? The ATT solution seems to be oriented towards turning the volume down, but I have no volume at all…

@"Jeff_M

If you haven’t already, set your retries to 10 in VARA FM set up.

OK, done.

@"Jeff_M

Confirm the gateway is functional somehow:
a. Do you (or a ham in your area) have a prior functional TNC, Radio, Computer combination that does work with the gateway?
b. Try another gateway
c. Contact the gateway owner

Have found and reached out to gateway owner via email but have not heard back yet.

@"Jeff_M

I thought you had your PTT worked out, but maybe not. For what it’s worth, here are my CAT settings for using my Yaesu that has a Mini Din 6 for PTT and audio, but no frequency control (set it manually): VARA FM>Settings>PTT – COM (Not CAT, RA-Board, or VOX), Port = COM7(my Digirig), PTT Pin=RTS

Actually, CAT PTT was working for me yesterday afternoon, on all modes. Whatever fiddling I had done seemed to fix that problem, at least!

[Jeff_M]

Hi Oldie, I have made a mess of the forum format already so lets move the QSO to e-mail. Find my email address on QRZ (AJ6LG). Once you sort it out you can post a summary for the forum. - Jeff

[Constrainted]

@Oldie

Yes, am using VE3SMF-10.

VE3SMF RMS Gateway did a relay yesterday. It is not very active, though. Maybe it is up-and-down…

Here’s a log:

It may not seem like it, but you are getting closer. Keep troubleshooting. The radio has lots of capabilities, so there are many adjustable parameters. You will find the right ones.

73 Constrainted

[Jeff_M]

Oldie, Send me an e-mail so I can send you one back. I have more for you. - Jeff

[Oldie]

Well, I made it in!

Contacted the Gateway manager, who suggested trying it from a bit closer. So I set up in a park only about a half-mile from his antenna, and had no trouble hitting it.

Mind you, he’s only 9 km from my back yard. But some combination of distance, topography, and QRP power on radio, combined to make the gateway impossible to hit.

So, to make this thread as useful as possible for anyone trying to run the same combo as me (i.e. Windows 10, Digirig, FT-818), be aware that power and line-of-site are critical for VARA-FM.

Here are the final settings:

WINDOWS SETTINGS

• SOUND > PLAYBACK > DIGIRIG > LEVELS > SPEAKERS 24, MIC 10 (and VARA VU meter about 2 o’clock with this setting)
• SOUND > RECORDING > DIGIRIG > LEVELS > MIC 9
• DEVICE MANAGER > PORTS > COM 5 > PORT SETTINGS > bits per sec = 9600

RADIO SETTINGS

• #14 CAT RATE = 38400 (matches port setting for Windows COM5)
• #39 PKT MIC = 50
• #40 PKT RATE = 1200 (to match VARA-FM narrow setting)
• Transmit in PKT mode

VARA-FM SETTINGS

• VARA SETUP > FM NARROW
• SOUNDCARD > DRIVE LEVEL -21 DB, DIGIRIG AS I/O
• PTT > CAT, BRAND = YAESU, PORT = COM5, BAUD = 38400 (matches CAT RATE setting on radio)

[Constrainted]

Congratulations! You might consider using a path elevation profiler like:

HeyWhatsThat Path Profiler

to see what the issues are between your desired operating location and the Winlink gateway.

73 Constrainted

[Oldie]

Good tool that path profiler thingy! The airport is up high, and between him and me–so, there you go!

Thank you, Constrainted and also thank you to Jeff_M for your patience and details helping me with this. I am NOT very good with computers, and this excersie really “stretched” me technically.

[Constrainted]

@Oldie

I am NOT very good with computers

You are now!

73 Constrainted