Winlink over VHF Troubleshooting with QRZ-1 and/or D878UVII

kf0mlb · October 11, 2023, 3:02am

I’ve been working to get Winlink over VHF working but I’m not making any headway that I can tell. I’ve tried both Windows 11 and Debian 12, used a USB Soundcard + BTECH APRS cable and a Digirig Mobile + Baofeng K1 adapter, and swapped between my Explorer QRZ-1 and Anytone D878UVII Plus. I’m trying to get things working with a lower cost HT, because it’s what I have, and if I can get it working by Demo Day for our club technicians class, I think it’d be a good example that new techs can do more than just talk on Repeaters with their license (yes, that’s overly simplified).

I have been doing most of my testing using:

I have Winlink and Direwolf running on a Windows 11 Surface notebook, and Pat and Direwolf running on a Debian 12 notebook. The Direwolf configs are stripped down to bare essentials. Pat I configured for AX.25 over AGWPE. Winlink is using the Packet Modem setup. I can give more specifics on those settings, if requested . I have also tried switching between my Diamond RH77CA 15" antenna, and my N9TAX Slim Jim antenna in the attic (that I use every week on Net with a Kenwood TM-261a).

Today I got in a Digirig Mobile, hoping that maybe the USB soundcard was just a dud. But after getting the Digirig configured (with PTT now, I was using VOX with the TROND), I tried connecting again. And basically the same issue; I’m sending out connection requests, but not getting anything back in. Using another handheld, I can hear the Winlink connection going out on 145.070, so at least I am transmitting. I did confirm both Windows and Linux, the USB and Digirig are not the system sound card selected, and levels are turned up with enhancements turned off.

From my home I’m not that far from Joint Communications for the county (where I’m under the impression the Winlink gateway is). I am sending this same request to our club boards to verify the Winlink gateway is where I think it is, and my 5W HT should reach.

Below is what I see on Direwolf in Debian 12:

Attempting connect to K0SI-10 ...
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABME cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(22/18)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABME cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABME cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(22/18)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABME cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABME cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(22/18)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABME cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(21/18)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(21/18)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(21/18)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(21/18)   [NONE]   |||||||__
[0.3] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 39(21/18)   [NONE]   |||||||__
[0.3] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 40(21/18)   [NONE]   |||||||__
[0.3] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)
[0L] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)

KF0MLB audio level = 39(21/18)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] KF0MLB>K0SI-10:(SABM cmd, p=1)
Failed to connect to K0SI-10 after 10 tries.

Has anyone run into similar issues and gotten them resolved?

K0TX · October 11, 2023, 4:52am

Do you hear any other traffic on the same frequency?

KG7WOC · October 14, 2023, 5:14pm

Hi - I wanted to jump into this topic (mostly to try and learn how this forum works) - but I also had some info that might help - As Denis says, verify you are receiving first - you could use the local APRS frequency to verify you are properly receiving and decoding
packet traffic. If that’s working, you look at your TX setup - I made my first Winlink connection with a Baofeng UV variant about 2 years ago - and in doing so I learned 2 very important things: 1) If the radio has it, use packet mode or for the Baofeng it was called the NFM (Narrow FM) mode - this will minimize deviation on your output. 2) Make sure you are using the minimum audio level going into the TX radio that works - I was using the Baofeng (<5W) to connect to my local site ~ 20 miles from my QTH - and most of the other users said they couldn’t connect from less than 5 miles away running 50W. So, the lesson there is “More power is not always better” for packet. I would use the other radio to monitor your output - then, turn the audio level going to the TX radio down until you hear the level just start to drop on the monitoring radio… That’s where you want to be. Adjust down until it doesn’t work reliably, then increase a bit. Hope any of this helps, and don’t give up ! 73, Dave.

kf0mlb · October 14, 2023, 8:17pm

I will give these suggestions a try tonight or tomorrow.

Constrainted · October 14, 2023, 8:20pm

Thanks for this detailed recommendation. I’ve been successful using the Baofeng using wide rather than NFM, but I always want to improve!

73 Constrainted

Constrainted · October 14, 2023, 8:39pm

I agree APRS is a great first mode to get working.

73 Constrainted

KG7WOC · October 14, 2023, 9:52pm

Howdy -

My first successful reception of a VHF Packet signal (APRS) using my Baofeng was me simply holding the radio up to my laptop (running UZ7HO’s SoundModem) !!!

No wires, electronics or computers - just the radio talking to the laptop.

Things just got more complicated since then…

kf0mlb · October 18, 2023, 12:07am

I configured my QRZ-1 with the APRS frequency, using Narrow FM, and saved it. Today I connected the radio + Digirig to my Surface Book 2 running Windows 11 and started Direwolf with Pinpoint APRS. Direwolf kept telling me the audio levels were too low, I started with Microphone and Speaker at 30% then slowly moved them up to 99%. I switched over to UZ7HO Soundmodem, and moved the audio levels back to 30 or 40%, and everything started working. I ran it for about 90 minutes, I was getting lots of check-ins, I could see my updates via APRS.fi and my Anytone 878 Plus. I also received an SMS message I sent from the 878 to Pinpoint APRS. So APRS feels like it’s working.

I shutdown Pinpoint and changed my radio channel to the local Winlink frequency, then tried to start Winlink Packet Mode and I got no response from the local RMS Gateway. I still need to test VARA FM to a different gateway about 30 miles away, see if it opens up for me.

KG7WOC · October 18, 2023, 12:33am

Howdy - not sure if an APRS app will always work with Winlink - I tried to get my Baofeng to connect to Winlink for like, a year (using the VOX function) until I read online that the VOX’s Hang-time setting in the Baofeng is too long (~ 2 seconds) and not menu-adjustable - and that’s doesn’t work for Winlink. So then I bit the bullet and spent the 7.95 for this guy:

Worked like a champ. I’ve been exploring the Winlink Services provided on APRS - very extensive ! You can check your Winlink emails via APRS, read them, respond, etc…

Very cool.

Vara is also fun - I’ve just started experimenting with that - got the 9600 cable for my radio (FT-818ND) and I’ve got it work with both the FM and HF modes - I’d like to try out the “chat” function - just to see if it works… but there’s not too many folks chatting on that…

73,

Dave KG7WOC

KG7WOC · October 18, 2023, 12:43am

Yes it really is - having a ready source for signals you can monitor and use to confirm your end of the arrangement - and the fact that a digipeater repeats your transmission back for you to hear/see is a bonus also.

I just this past week started looking into DMR - which apparently has an “echo” function - which provides a similar warm/fuzzy feeling to let you know you are not a complete waste of time - you can transmit a short voice message (assuming you are able to get through all of the steps that it takes to get a DMR radio up, running and programmed for use without chucking it out the window) - and then the network sends it right back to your radio for you to hear. A bit of marketing genius I think…

Constrainted · October 18, 2023, 1:38am

Congrats on the progress with APRS. I must give full disclosure. I have done APRS and Winlink Vara FM, but not Winlink Packet FM with Digirig + Baofeng HT. I never tried.

In my experience with Vara FM, the input sound level must be set to between 12pm and 2pm on the Vara Modem VU meter, and I have found this to be the touchiest part. Then the output Volume can be adjusted to get the right level. Vara modem has Ping and Auto-tune features to help you troubleshoot.

Good luck, you are very close!

73 Constrainted

Constrainted · October 18, 2023, 1:44am

With the Digirig, and cables by Denis K0TX, you do not need to rely on VOX either. Digirig presents a COM port so that the Vara Modem software or soundmodem can pull PTT on the Baofeng HT.

73 Constrainted

Constrainted · October 18, 2023, 1:55am

I have used the YAAC APRS client YAAC - Yet Another APRS Client (ka2ddo.org) to communicate with a Winlink Gateway to send messages to an address on the Winlink system. In my experience, it was difficult to complete the send process. Other clients may be better or worse.

73 Constrainted

KG7WOC · October 18, 2023, 9:54pm

Howdy -

I’ve just skimmed through the DireWolf User Guide - Did you know DireWolf is an acronym ?

Decoded
Information from
Radio
Emissions for
Windows
Or
Linux
Fans

In the guide, the author (John - WB2OSZ) explains in detail why using the HT VOX in lieu of a PTT device is a big NO for APRS and an even bigger NO for connected modes (like Winlink). He includes timing charts! I can’t tell you how much time reading that guide would have saved me when I was first starting out with my Baofeng HT and digital modes… Live and learn.

73,
Dave KG7WOC

KG7WOC · October 18, 2023, 10:09pm

Hi - I just re-read your post and noted that you said you were running DireWolf and the DigiRig at the same time - I think maybe I misunderstood… but in any case, I’m not sure that you can send the audio from your APRS app to both DireWolf and the DigiRig at the same time (nor is there any need to) - With the DigiRig hooked up, you don’t need DireWolf to act as the TNC. That may be why DireWolf was telling you that the audio inputs were too low (the inputs were probably re-routed to the DigiRig as soon as you connected it).

Let me know if I’m totally messed up here - I’m always glad to be told, and consider that the most valuable information I ever get !

73,

Dave KG7WOC

kf0mlb · October 19, 2023, 12:04am

Great news! With a club members note about the Winlink antenna being low, I setup my radio and laptop in my truck and parked near the fairgrounds. I was able to connect, send out 3 emails via Winlink over packet VHF, checked my phone, replied from my phone, and received back in Winlink. So it seems 5W HT with slim jim antenna in the attic just couldn’t quite get through all the trees and obstacles to the EOC.

I did use Narrow FM for APRS, but changed to medium FM (not wide) on my radio and Winlink worked. Knowing I can connect now, I will check the garage antenna again later.

Constrainted · October 19, 2023, 4:02am

Congratulations. In my early days, I did the same and drove up close to the gateway and used a magmount antenna for success with Vara FM. Building on that success, I was eventually able to get the rollup J-pole to work at home, by using RF chokes and moving the antenna far from the transmitter and computer.

Good luck, let us know the next success!

73 Constrainted

KG7WOC · October 19, 2023, 4:42pm

Good job !

I also have a j-pole for VHF/UHF… it’s up on top of the roof of my garage, and it’s made out of a 10 ft. piece of electrical conduit, a metal bracket, some pipe clamps, a coax connector and 2 pieces of threaded stainless rod (“all-thread”). Works good enough on 2M and 70cm to work the local repeaters, winlink sites and the ISS ! Picture:

73 de Dave KG7WOC